Issue 088

May 2012

UFC heavyweight title challenger Alistair Overeem is a man on a mission to make history and become the first unified ruler of mixed martial arts.

Brash, bold and intimidating based on the gargantuan man’s sheer size and presence alone, Alistair Overeem, the Dutch mixed martial artist and former kickboxer, does not mince his words.

Not in the way he visualizes making mincemeat of opponents with those lethal kicks and strikes. Overeem, six-foot-five, 265lb and with the bearing and bulge of a toymaker-designed action superhero figure, signed to the Ultimate Fighting Championship in the fall and dispatched Brock Lesnar with alacrity as the New Year dawned. Timing is everything in sport. And ‘The Reem’ may well have landed his spot in the UFC to perfection.

The Dutchman now stands within touching distance of a moniker no heavyweight in mixed martial arts has ever been able to call his own. If he can defeat Junior Dos Santos in Las Vegas on May 26th he will be the sport’s first true ‘undisputed’ champion.

The word has a resonance in fight sports. Time was when being the heavyweight champion of the world was considered ‘the richest prize in sport.’ The epithet held true for boxing’s champions. Today, with the ring’s championship splintered and diluted, that cloak falls upon the UFC’s heavyweight champion.

And it’s this title that Overeem covets. Undisputed. He wants it bad.

Like a modern-day colossus, he bestrides combat sports and fighting organizations as a proven champion. The 31-year-old is the last undefeated Strikeforce heavyweight champion, Dream heavyweight champion, K-1 world grand prix champion, and has made history by being the only fighter in combat sports to hold both a world title in MMA and K-1 kickboxing at the same time.

In an exclusive, enlightening interview with Fighters Only, Overeem reveals he is a deep thinker, is happy in his own company, content with his new team, and ready to realize his lofty ambitions.

His environs, as much as possible, he likes to control. And the people around him.

Controlling the controllables, perhaps. Inside, he discloses, is a burning fire for ambition within the sport, but a part of his ego which he reveals is ready, in his fourth decade and at the peak of his powers, to be a more widely recognized sports star.   

Born in Hounslow, West London, to a Jamaican father and an English mother, Overeem opened up to disclose that there came a time in his life, just over six years ago, when his world was crashing down around him. A few years earlier, he was considering a career in the military – in the Marines.

He had started fighting professionally to save up the money for an eye operation to ensure his place as a trainee special operations soldier. But, in Pride, he had decided that his life lay in professional fighting not in the defense of a nation; but as a sport, as an individual.

“If I hadn’t been in sports I’d have been in the armed forces, because that is what I wanted to become even when I was starting training. I was 18 and planning on joining the Marines, but I actually had minus-one in one eye. I was planning to do an eye surgery and I had to save up some money for that.

“I couldn’t join right then so I just planned to keep up my conditioning, do some fights, get some more experience, save some money for the laser surgery and after the surgery then join the military. I’d be an excellent officer in the military. I’d say jump, you’d say how high.”

He laughs. He’s not joking, though. “You know what changed my mind about going into the military? I was fighting in Pride, in 2002, and by the time I’d had the surgery on my eyes, I was 24, and I just liked the fighting more, so decided to stick with it.”

Overeem is only too aware that today, men in the military, in police departments, in law enforcement and special operations, follow mixed martial arts. “Of course, it’s a macho thing.” But isn’t it also the power, strength, about being a man but also having discipline, controlled aggression, all the factors that are in those roles and professions. “Yeah. There are definitely similarities and there are a lot of soldiers participating and practicing MMA and some fighting; also there are some police officers. Of course, MMA is the ultimate combat sport.”

But then, in 06–07, he took three losses on the trot in Pride, to ‘Little Nog’ Antonio Nogueria, Ricardo Arona and ‘Shogun’ Rua. All three came inside eight months. At the same time he became a father, when his daughter, Storm, was born. And also his mother, Clair, was diagnosed with cancer. 

“I’ve had my dark side of the sport, but when I look back it wasn’t really that dark,” Overeem says. “In 2006, I lost three in a row because there were some factors which were draining energy: I had a new born daughter; my mother got cancer. All these factors at the same time was draining energy, and kept me from focusing on training.

“When you lose, you feel bad, but even when I look back on this period, I recaptured my focus, I changed a lot of things and I went back at it again, and that’s what took me to this position I’m at right now. I can look back at the bad moments as a focus, as a period of refocus and prioritizing my life again.”

He certainly learned from the losses. Since November 2007, Overeem has gone 12 fights undefeated. Leading publicists inside, and indeed outside, the sphere of MMA believe the huge man-mountain from the Netherlands has the potential, in publicity terms alone, of being the most prolific figure in the sporting world.

He’s already crossed over into the mainstream – appearing in music videos, and his own series of video blogs about his life, The Reem, which has built up a huge international following online. “I am ready to become a major player,” he states. “And it all comes with a decision I made several years ago. In my down period, in 2006–2007, I asked myself the question: ‘Why are you doing what you’re doing?’ Basically, I had a long conversation with myself, and what came out of that was a sentence: ‘I want to make the most out of my career, out of my life’ – and I’m still going by that. What that means is making the most of my career. I’ve had a great adventure since then, and it’s still going strong.”

There is a dark and determined tone about Alistair Overeem. He is very much his own man. He does not exude any of the bubbling enthusiasm you find in his May 26th opponent, incumbent UFC champion of the heavies Dos Santos. 

His early years are significant. Indeed, he reveals his very first sporting memory, as a child, was “watching WWF at the age of eight.” He was small (hard to believe, I know) and impressionable. “I remember watching a Hulk Hogan fight with The Ultimate Warrior. At that moment, I never knew I’d become a fighter, but I was fascinated by big guys battling it out, but I never imagined I’d be doing the real thing myself.” He started kickboxing at 13, and at 15 he had his first fight. “I’d played different kinds of sport, but I really became dedicated at the age of 15, after that first fight.

“Today, I don’t follow WWE. I follow soccer and watch a little bit of tennis.” He’s also started to watch football. Surely, he’d have been a great football player… “I think so,” he remarks. What position would he have been assigned? “I wouldn’t be the running back, they don’t last that long. I’d be in defense.”

It’s that area of defense, indeed, in MMA, which will be questioned when the fine combs are raked over in the analysis of his fight with Dos Santos as the days wind down to the battle of the bulge. Some perceive Overeem to be an ‘on top’ fighter: brilliant and brutal going forward; vulnerable when put on the back foot. That is the debate that will rage when he faces the Brazilian, still unbeaten in the UFC (8-0), and 14-1 overall in his MMA career.

So how does Overeem, giant pretender to the throne, perceive the champion elect? He has stated quite plainly already he believes Dos Santos has the best boxing in MMA. But then, surely the challenger has the best kickboxing in MMA. So how does Overeem expect the styles to collide in the Octagon?

He says: “I think I’m a better fighter than Dos Santos. I mean not to take anything away from him, he’s very dangerous, he’s got great hands, but looking at my resume and looking at my experience and at the things I’ve done. I’m bigger and more heavy, and a better fighter.

“Anything can happen in a fight, and it can often come down to who keeps their focus on. If things turn out the way I plan them to, this fight will be no problem.”

One of the issues facing Dos Santos is Overeem’s devastating power, his kicks and knees especially. There have also been questions posed about Dos Santos’ prowess as ‘a finisher.’ He showed against American heavyweight Roy Nelson that he’s perhaps not the most lethal when it comes to getting guys out of there early.

And Overeem insists that finishing will be the least of JDS’s problems. “It’s kind of hard to prepare for me, I am a little bit of a unique opponent,” he says. “There’s actually no sparring partners like me so that’s what going to be hard for him, or for anyone that I’m fighting for that matter. There will always be issues preparing for an opponent like me.

“My aim is to be there, seen as undisputed heavyweight champion, someone that dominates others. My goal is not to just fight the next time and then lose it. If you look at my track record I’ve been focused for a long time, and I plan on being focused till the end of my career. And my MMA career is not going to be over any time soon.”

The goal has been set. And the goalposts, in Overeem’s mind, are immovable objects. “I think that after the next fight, when I win the title, nobody can dispute that fact. Like I said, it’s been an amazing adventure and this fight, if the strategy comes off, it will be no problem. I feel good, I feel well motivated, my body is good, we are going to be more than ready on May 26th.”

Right place, right team, right time

Despite some well-publicized spats with his former gym, Overeem admits he feels a contentedness with the refreshed team he has around him. He just has a gnawing for that final belt to be strapped around his waist. 

He says: “I just consider myself very lucky to have come this far, and doing what I love, it’s my passion. I love to train, and participating in events where a lot of people are coming to watch. There actually is no downside to it. There can be a downside when you lose a few fights in a row, and I’ve had that happen to me. Obviously, at that point, the spotlight becomes a little bit less shiny on you. But I made a hard comeback, and I don’t really see a downside to my career.”

He has been involved in several amazing events over the last few years: K-1 title, Dream title, Strikeforce champion and then a perfect debut in the UFC against Brock Lesnar. “I think the whole adventure, I can call it an adventure, has been great. But it’s been 17 years of training, 15 years fighting. It has been an adventure. It’s getting more professional and better along the way. I’m working a lot with my friends, and it’s a real nice experience.

“When you’re around friends, it doesn’t feel like you’re working, you’re just having fun. I’m very fortunate to be in the position I’m in right now.”

Crossing the Atlantic

Much has been made of Overeem’s split from Golden Glory and then the false start of his initial switch to Xtreme Couture in Las Vegas, before finally settling in Florida. So is he always going to be peripatetic, always moving? “When I was 15 to 20 I was training in Amsterdam in Chris Dolman’s gym, then from the age of 20 to 2011, I trained with Golden Glory, and now I have just made the move to the Blackzilians. That is three camps over 17 years. I would say that, that is not really gypsy behavior. I would say that is pretty steadfast.

“I plan to stay with the Blackzilians as long as the relationship remains healthy. Glen [Robinson] has already proved to be a great asset; he’s already proved to me that he is on top of stuff business-wise. On the other hand, the relationship with Golden Glory would never have come to a halt if nothing negative happened, something’s happened which caused me to distance myself from their management.

“If that relationship was kept healthy and kept good I would still be with Golden Glory, I like to work with people who I’ve known for a long time. Some relationships are forever, some relationships are for a long time. But some relationships are for a short time, and some relationships are not even meant to be, so in that sense it doesn’t matter to me. As long as it is healthy, it can last a long time. But if it’s not healthy it’s going to last a very short time.

“I want to make the most out of my career, and people are stopping me, halting me doing that. So that means you have to make some choices, and that can mean different things, that could be management but it could also be friends. You can’t do things that will cost you your career. It’s all to do with choices.”

Fame is something he appears to aspire to. “But I’m not really star struck. I wouldn’t just invite people to dinner if I’d never really met them, I’d feel awkward just sitting there with strangers. But there are several people I would like to meet,” he admits. “For example, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and maybe David Beckham. Just because they work in a professional way and have achieved so much and have a world name. I would be very curious to speak to them about their experiences and their adventures, so to speak. But to have dinner with them would just be awkward.”

Life in the UFC

Overeem has witnessed the sport morph into a rolling juggernaut under the banner of Zuffa LLC, and he has finally leapt aboard the fast train. Any changes he would like to see? 

“I have no demands,” he concedes. “I think the UFC is doing an excellent job in bringing MMA/UFC to the mainstream audience. They have been doing the best job ever, far better than the Japanese had done, so I have no complaints. They are doing a great job.

“Look at the way the sport is now. The UFC guys know exactly what they’re doing, they are very business minded, and on top of that, they are correct. They are polite and they do things in a professional way. It also feels 100 times bigger than anything else. If you compare it to other fight leagues, Pride, Dream, Strikeforce, K1. UFC is just so much bigger, and a lot more professional.

“Everything is taken care of, from A-to-Z, and I think they’ve done a great job cleaning up the sport, because it was almost like you had all these different islands. But the UFC is creating one island, one league, one set of rules and the behavioral code. They are not always that clear, but you just behave. They are not there to raise you, but they are there to slap you on the knuckles when you cross the line.”

He adds: “MMA fighters and fighters in general are not the most easy people to deal with, but you can clearly see that the sport is being more professionalized and has cleaned up its act.”

Asked if his UFC contract still allows him to fight in K-1 or other kickboxing events, Overeem quickly indicates his mind-set. “I’m not going to compete in any kickboxing K-1 events, even if I could. My contract is exclusive, but I don’t have the desire anyway.

“I am very happy with the UFC, they have a promotional machine, they are doing a great job. My whole thing is I want to fight for the biggest audience ever and the UFC provides me that platform, why would I want to fight for some kickboxing event? I don’t want to take anything away from K-1, they had a great platform as well, but I’ve not done anything in a year and a half in K-1 fighting since I won it.

“Why would I want to fight on a lesser show? That doesn’t make sense. No, I’m very happy with the UFC, very happy with my contract, so that is it.”

In fact, the only desires Overeem truly has left now is to have his hand raised in Las Vegas on May 26th and feel that 20lb strap of UFC gold wrapped around his torso, and to keep enjoying life. He adds: “I just want to be the UFC heavyweight champion of the world. And also to have a happy life, a healthy life, with my friends and experience a lot of things.

“I like my calm moments. I don’t only like to travel and do stuff, I like to reflect on what have I done, what am I going to, just to think, and I also enjoy just being by myself. When I wake every morning the belt definitely crosses my mind, but there are different 

ways to become number one. It’s not only training, training, training, it is also thinking, how am I going to train, what am I going to do, how am I going to do it when I get there. And I will.”

British connection

You feel as you were born in England, there is part of you that is British?

“There definitely is, my first couple of years were in England, and later on I also lived in England when I was 13. I believe I have double nationality, I do feel British but I feel a bit more Dutch, but at the end of the day there is a British side to me.”

So when you unify the world titles, can the British claim you as their own?

“I do definitely like the fact that a lot of British people are proud of me and that’s another recognition that I’m being given, for the fact that I was born in Britain. So, definitely, the guys in the UK can definitely claim me, just as the Dutch can claim me as well.”

Do you pass the British test? Do you have a football club? Do you like cricket?

“Manchester United. Cricket? No, I draw the line there.”

“If Brock got hungry again, I think he might take another fight...”

Were you surprised in your contest with Brock Lesnar that he tried to stand with you, or even that it was such a quick finish?

“The quick finish was no surprise. In my opinion if he came any more aggressively forward, he would have been knocked out sooner. That is the sport we are in and we are heavyweights, and fights can end very quickly. I believe his strategy was to tire me out, and then be more aggressive later on in the fight. So my thinking is that he was fighting according to plan. It just didn’t work.”

But when you stuffed that first single-leg, do you think it shook him mentally?

“I don’t think so, he was fighting relaxed. He was focused on not using energy. He was still in a conservative mode in terms of coming forward.”

Did you feel insulted at all, that people thought he was going to beat you given the amount of experience you have in combat sports and fight sports, compared to the little experience that he really had? 

“Look, I always said he was the best wrestler in MMA for me, and one of the most dangerous fighters in MMA. I definitely think that experience came to my advantage. My next main event – when I fight Junior Dos Santos – is going to be my 70th fight. This is 10 times as much experience as Brock has. I definitely think he underestimated that.”

Were you surprised when he decided to retire immediately after the bout?

“I genuinely didn’t give it any thought. It came as a little bit of a disappointment, I do think there was more for him to be gained from the sport. It was tough for him because he retired on a loss, or two losses even. But for me, I think again he was great for the sport. I was a fan of his fighting. Whenever he fought, I would wake up the next morning, ignoring the time difference, I’d switch on my PC and watch his fight first. So in that sense I was a big fan of his, and yes it is a shame he has left the Octagon.”

Do you think we’ll see him come back for one more fight? As you said, no one likes to leave the sport on a loss like that.

“Maybe. I don’t think so, but maybe if he got hungry again he could make a return to fighting in MMA.”

Royal connection

What of the veracity when you announced in Japan that you were the great-great-grandson of William III of the Netherlands. Is this true?

“My uncle basically had the information about that; that my grandfather’s father was a bastard son of King William III. Now the whole thing goes like this, King William III was a bit of a playboy, and had a lot of young girlfriends, and he had more bastard children outside of his marriage, and my father’s grandfather was one of them.

“It’s a funny detail, a funny story, other than that I’ve had to work for what I’ve got, I’ve never got anything free. I was definitely not born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I‘ve worked very hard for what I’ve got now. It’s just a funny story.”