Issue 099
He’s refereed over 200 of MMA’s biggest fights and here the Brazilian recalls some of his fondest memories of being the third man.
Q. A lot of fans seem to be confused about who you’re employed by, so who does pay your wages?
“We used to be hired by whichever promotion we were refereeing for, until MMA was legalised, and now we are employed by the Association of Boxing Commissions. Most fans think we work for the UFC, but we don’t.”
We all know how much preparation fighters put in before an event, but what about you as a referee? “Obviously we have to prepare for an event in a different way. We need to be familiarised with who’s fighting who, because if you know the fighters’ styles you’ll know more or less where the fight will go. Plus, on the day of the event I like to concentrate and not talk too much.”
Q. How fine of a line do you have to walk so you don’t create too close a friendship with fighters you’ll have to referee?
“We, as members of the commission, cannot be too friendly with a fighter. Referees have to be professional, and we can’t and shouldn’t interfere in the fight, because the ABC is watching. You do something funny and they will not call you for fights anymore.”
Q. How close are you with other referees in the business? Do you travel together, share notes and hang out together, all that kind of stuff?
“Of course, I’m really good friends with most of them, especially John McCarthy, Herb Dean and Josh Rosenthal. We hang out and exchange knowledge and information to help grow the sport.”
Q. Tell us how you first got involved with the UFC and how you became a referee.
“The first UFC event I attended was the Ultimate Ultimate in 1996 when Tank Abott fought Don Frye. Then in 1998 I helped organise UFC Brazil, and on the way back to the US I asked ‘Big’ John why was he the only referee and he said they where looking for another one – and here I am.”
Q. A lot of people might be surprised to hear you have a deep background in judo and BJJ. How important is that to you as a referee?
“It’s vital to have knowledge of at least three of the most dominant arts in MMA – Muay Thai, wrestling and Brazilian jiu-jitsu. I started training in judo with my father when I was three. Back in the day, he was the only international referee in Brazil and he’d use me and my brother to act out scenarios on most of the refereeing courses he administered; in effect I learnt to referee while I was playing. I soon got my black belt in judo and started training with the Brazilian national team. I thought I was a badass until I met my jiu-jitsu master (Marcelo Behring), and I got my ass kicked and started training jiu-jitsu. Now I’m a fourth-degree black belt.”
Q. Which is the most interesting story you can share from pre- or post-fight encounters with a fighter?
“I remember seeing Mark Coleman talking to some fans in the bar of an Atlantic City hotel the night before he was due to fight (Kevin) Randleman. Some of the fans started to argue with Mark about who was the better fighter and after some beers he started to raise his voice. But one fan kept bugging him about it, and then suddenly all hell broke loose and some knucklehead was getting beat up by Mark Coleman!”
Q. What’s the most amazing aspect of the growth of MMA you’ve witnessed?
“I love the fact that when we started everyone thought we were crazy, but now everybody wants to be part of the sport. So the most amazing thing is to see the sport I helped start get the credit and glamour it does today.”
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