Issue 154

May 2017

The World MMA Awards ‘Referee of the Year’ for 2016 looks back over his 24-year love affair with the Octagon.

You go back to the very start of the UFC. But you had concerns about it early on, didn’t you?

The very first time I refereed was UFC 2. After that show, I went to Rorion Gracie and said I will never do that again. I said, ‘Rorion, you will get somebody seriously hurt.’

I grew up in a certain fashion. I didn’t grow up in a nice clean area that didn’t have fighting. I grew up fighting. I’ve seen people get stomped and I’ve seen the end result. This was all allowed in the early UFCs and I was supposed to be the guy inside allowing it to happen at times when I couldn’t stop it.

I said, ‘If I can’t stop the fight I’m not going to do it’. That’s when I came up with when ‘a fighter cannot intelligently defend himself’. He agreed with that.

That was the first evolution of putting a rule concept on it.

Do you feel a part of creating history?

There’s a lot of phonies in this world, people who take credit for things they had nothing to do with. It doesn’t matter what Sam across the street knows about what I’ve done.

Does he like MMA? If he likes or loves it, I’ve done my job. I absolutely love everything about MMA.

What great fights stand out to you during your time in the Octagon?

There’s so many. It’s impossible for me to say the greatest fight I’ve ever done. I would be denigrating so many other incredible fights.

Watch how incredible Chuck Liddell vs. Randy Couture 1 was. Go and watch Chuck in the other two. Go and watch (Alexander) Gustafsson fight Jon Jones. Robbie Lawler vs. Rory MacDonald.

Look at the heart of the warrior in both of them.

Look at the moments where each one could have given up. But they sucked it up. In Bellator, go and watch (Eddie) Alvarez vs. (Michael) Chandler 2 or Chandler vs. (Benson) Henderson. I can name so many.

Is mixed martial arts becoming a safer sport?

Knowledge is power. We’re doing things now for fighters.

People understand what an MRI is, a CAT scan, but those two things, although they do image the brain and can show things that are right now, can’t give a synopsis of baseline to you changing that the C3 test can.

Now we’re going to have fighters getting a baseline. If they’re coming out when they’re 20, then they’re going to see every year as they take a medical. They’ll see how much they have deteriorated in the five, 10-year period.

At least the fighter at that point can have an actual picture. They can ask themselves, ‘Is it time for me to stop?’ We do have fighters going on way past the time they should stop.

Can you envisage MMA changing because of what we’ll learn about fighting and the effect on the brain?

It’s going to change. I tell guys all the time, when I had my gym and was sparring I’d get hit with things I’d see and in my head I’d go, ‘F**k, that hurt.’

It got a point when it wasn’t fun anymore. Every guy I know who has ever fought, there comes a time in training when they get hit and they go, ‘Oh, that hurt.’

You never think of it hurting when you’re young. All you think about is, ‘I want to get him.’ When you start to think that, it’s over. BJ Penn was Windows 95.

It was great when it came out, but this kid (Yair Rodriguez) is the next thing.

Do you think fights will be stopped more quickly?

Yes. It’s what makes our job so hard. 20 years ago, we didn’t know what the long-term effects were.

That’s where you’re going to see an evolution in fighting and in officiating. Once we see a guy get hit and react a certain way, at a certain point somewhere along the line we’re going to stop the fight and fans will have to learn to accept it.

The fighter has given all they can give in that fight, but they have been damaged to a point now and in the future, we will say, ‘Hey, we’re not going to allow this anymore.’

Fighters suffer from nerves, but do you ever get anxious?

I don’t get nervous. I’m not acting like I’m special. I think you get nervous when you’re not sure or unprepared. When you know what to do and you’re prepared, it’s a matter of, do I get excited? Yes.

Guys will do things at times and you’ll want to go, ‘Ooh’, but you’ve got to keep a straight face. You’ll see guys get hit with something and know that hurt, but you’ll have to just play it off. This is where you look back on your life and realize people keep getting bigger, stronger, better and able to handle more than they ever did in the past.

I just realize I’m blessed to be part of a sport I adore. The people who take part in it are fricking warriors.

Do you understand their fears, their worries?

A fighter’s not scared of a person across the Octagon. A person gets scared of looking bad, performing in front of their team, family and friends, and looking bad.

That’s what they fear because it’s always a possibility.

Look at Conor (McGregor) when he beat José Aldo. Nobody thought he’d win like that. You’ve got to give Conor so much credit for the way he timed it and did what he did. It’s all part of preparation. He got him mad, he knew what shot to throw.

It broke Aldo’s heart because he didn’t get to perform the way he knows he can perform. That’s the part that kills a fighter. For me, it’s hard to watch something like that because I understand it and I’ve been there.

Is anyone left from your era at the start of MMA?

If I start naming the referees who started with me, you’ll realize none of them are around anymore. Herb Dean was refereeing in King of the Cage, but he came into the UFC somewhere around UFC 46. He’s done a great job since.

Marc Goddard was a fighter and he came in around 70. The Ultimate Fighter in the UK was the thing that really started that drive. There were other guys ahead of Marc and Leon Roberts in the UK at first, but those guys didn’t have the same consistency.

How are you physically? Do you still train?

I’m a mess now. I used to train, spar and roll all the time. Now I have rubber disc in my neck and my back’s a mess. I still ride bikes and walk or run at least five to seven miles. I still lift weights, but I’ll never be what I was.

People look at me now and think I’m not that big. I’m trying not to be. The official has to have the ability in a bad moment to protect someone. If you can’t do that, it’s not for you.

How busy are you in mixed martial arts?

I do about 100 shows a year. Sometimes I have four shows a week, sometimes one. I’ve been in Israel one day and the States the next. No matter where I go, I want to help the sport grow.

I want people to understand the sport more and to understand how special the people who are competing in MMA are – how much work it takes, how athletic they are.

Will you always be involved in the sport?

I don’t want to be the guy who’s doing this too long or the guy who’s unable to physically do the things he needs to do to protect somebody. I don’t want to be slow. I don’t want someone to get hurt because I’m in a position where I can’t perform to the level that needs to be performed.

I will always try to be part of MMA. To walk away from MMA would be like walking away from my wife. I’ve been married for 32 years. I am the biggest smart ass there is, but she gets my humor.

I’ll die before I did anything that would make my wife want to walk away from me or make me want to walk away from her. Same with MMA.

'Big' John McCarthy: By the numbers

• 6ft 4in 315lb: The frame that got McCarthy his nickname
• March 11, 1994: Date of his debut assignment at UFC 2
• 15: Fights refereed that first night
• 54: UFC events absent, from Dec 2007 and Aug 2010. McCarthy briefly retired, then was “not on great terms” with Dana White.
• 1st: Winner of the World MMA Awards ‘Lifetime Achievement’ accolade